The Devils

Moved from the HISTORY and GEOGRAPHY Threads:

Jolly has proposed an alternative origin for the devils and the primordials. This is roughly how it translates.

1.) The primordials are the excess deific energies of the universe, which have attained some level of consciousness and slowly coalesced bodies for themselves in the elemental plane. The primordials are thus, fundamentally, power without restraint, both creation and destruction without aim or order, putting them in direct conflict with the orderly, relatively lawful bent of the gods.

2.) The archdevils take the space that primordials occupied in the original mythology; they are fallen angels. The nine original Lords of the Hells are the leaders of a movement to usurp the Nines' power and position. These corrupted angels and their followers are banished to a realm outside the rest of the cosmos, which they shape into the nine hells. NOTE: I say original Lords of the Nine Hells for a reason, because I already have several ideas for how the politics of the Nine Hells might play out.


Here is my personal suggestion for an alternate history.
1.) The gods create angels as their servants and warriors.
2.) The demons attack Azar-Raaka, starting the Dawn War.
3.) The demons are routed and retreat into the the Elemental Chaos. So close to the Abyss whence the demons can draw power and reinforcements, the war stalls, with unnumbered casualties on both sides.
4.) During one of many lulls in the war, the Nine's elite generals determine that the quarreling of the Nine has contributed in major part to the poor turn the war as taken and rebel.
5.) The gods quickly, decisively, and urgently quell the civil war, banishing the generals and those who followed them to a distant plane and cursing them with twisted, hellish forms.
6.) The war resumes and the gods stumble upon the primordials, who attack them.
7.) Badly outnumbered, the gods are forced to fall back through the planes.
8.) The Black Sovereign leads a small group of gods to set up the Pact Primeval. Under the terms of the pact, the devils are allowed greater influence on the planes, an agreement that eventually allows them to reach their current state of power and influence.
9.) Over the ages, the politics of the Hells changes the Archdevils somewhat, making them more ignoble, more deceitful, and leading to several changes in line-up. The machinations of the Black Sovereign (it is suspected that he is attempting to make the Hells into his own sort of puppet army) are largely credited with much of the expansion of the powers of the devils after the Pact Primeval.

REASONS for CHANGES: I sort of wanted the angels to have encountered/fought the demons already. It makes the Blood Wars more deep-seeded, less random, and more believable. With Jolly's suggestion that Asmodeus was once a follower of the Radiant Vanguard in mind, I also wanted their to be a definite greater-good style catalyst for the fall of the Archdevils.

What does everyone think of the proposed changes now?

Here's a list of the devils as Kimmons and I figured them. First I list the original devil, with the initials of his god in parentheses, then the current archdevil. A brief description of the transitions made in that hell follows. Much of the politics in the Hells comes from the intervention of the Black Sovereign, who seeks to turn the devils into a sort of personal army and gain the edge over the others of the Nine.

1.) Abaddon (CB) - Samael (BS)
After the devils were cast out, the First Reckoning of Hell (usually called the Founding of Hell) occurred, when the devils, cut off from their source of power (the Nine) turned on each other briefly. When the power structure stabilized, Abaddon, an angel of the Chaos Bringer who had been obsessed with destruction of all kinds and in all ways, had been overthrown and replaced with the more predictable (read: less dangerous) Zariel (BS). Bel (IM) overthrew Zariel after the Second Reckoning of Hell (usually just the Reckoning of Hell), part of Asmodeus's attempt to mitigate the Black Sovereign's influence on the Nine Hells. Supposedly Bel had Zariel long imprisoned somewhere in his realm, drawing power from her for most of his reign. The Black Sovereign did not enjoy having h those loyal to him removed from power, and schemed to have Bel replaced.
The Black Sovereign spent several centuries whispering into Bel's ear (well, having others whisper into Bel's ear), convincing him to muster a coup. When the armies of Bel were set to mount the coup, the Sovereign's forces did not come to his aid as promised, and Asmodeus, who seemed to have known of the insurrection, crushed Bel's forces. He did not remove the pit fiend from lordship, but instead imprisoned him in a body with the souls of numerous lesser devils. This earned him the name Legion and made him immensely unpredictable. It was not long before a move to overthrow him was made, and Samael (BS), famous for acquiring a number of death related powers while trying to steal worship from the Grim Swordsman, took Avernus as his own.

2.) Azrael/Dispater (GS)
Dispater was once a follower of the Grim Swordsman. Being so close to a god of fate and revenge has left Azrael intensely paranoid. As such, he holds strictly to the hierarchy that was developed for the Hells, valuing it immensely as a safeguard against double-crosses and unpredictable dangers. He prefers to be called by his title, Dispater, and considers using his name, Azrael, as an insult to all but those of a higher station in the Lordships of the Nine Hells.
The Black Sovereign keeps a palace in Dis so as to keep an eye on Dispater and to use him in his plans for the Hells, usually pulling rank (a god outranks an Archdevil) to get what he wants.

3.) Mammon (NS)
The embodiment of greed and avarice, Mammon has not changed much since his establishment as an Archdevil. None of the other Archdevils trust him for his quick betrayal of Mephistopheles, though the latter still holds Mammon in some regard, a fact which seems to have kept the Black Sovereign from having Mammon overthrown.
Mammon and the Sovereign do not particularly like one another, and the Sovereign's designs on Mammon's former consort (and rumored current secret consort), Glasya, put them even further at odds. The Black Sovereign has not gone after Mammon, however, many think because of his friendship with Mephistopheles.

4.) Belial (GD) - Fierna (GD)
Belial had been one of the Great Dragon's fairest angels before his fall. But among other things after the fall, the discovery of soul magic had lead Belial down the very lustful paths with which he tempted mortals. Shortly after the Reckoning, largely at Glasya's urging, Fierna, one of a generation of devils without direct ties to the gods, but whose connection to the Dragon is still obvious, seduced her father and overthrew him.
The Black Sovereign keeps a palace in Phlegethos, keeping both Fierna and her friend Glasya as on-again-off-again consorts.

5.) Moloch (BS)
Moloch was far and away the most powerful warrior angel in the Black Sovereign's army. So when a group of angels determined to overthrow the Nine, Moloch, loyal to Black Sovereign, was sent as a plant. He was also summarily banished with the rest of the Prime Legionnaires. Like his former master, Moloch is a schemer, frequently forming allegiances to keep up appearances rather than out of any semblance of loyalty or conviction. During the Second Reckoning, he joined the alliance led by Baalzebul so that he could feed information to the Black Sovereign, who still favors Mephisopheles as a successor to Asmodeus should the balance of power in the Hells change.
Moloch was briefly cast out of his lordship by Asmodeus, but took it back by force from the Hag Countess, his former consort who had betrayed him in the Reckoning stolen his lordship. He slew her.

6.) Geryon (IM) - Levistus (CB)
Geryon was unendingly loyal to Asmodeus, and even after the Fall twisted Asmodeus into something nearly unrecognizable as an angel, Geryon loved and admired him. After betraying him several times, Asmodeus replaced Geryon as Lord of the Sixth. Levistus, a devil associated with lightning, was the replacement. Levistus hatched a scheme to overthrow Asmodeus and take the Lord of Nessus's consort, Bensozia, as his own. When she did not agree, Levistus flew into a rage and slew her. Asmodeus imprisoned Levistus in ice, but did not relinquish his lordship.
The Black Sovereign does not like a former servant of the unpredictable Chaos Bringer holding a lordship in the Hells, but his icy tomb has prevented any serious attempt at slaying him. Currently, the Sovereign is playing on Levistus's role as the murderer of Glasya's mother to get her to "reconcile" with her father, feeding him "her" plans for taking Levistus's layer of the Hells for her own. He has several side-plans to free Levistus or have Levistus freed so that Glasya may seek revenge on him, seizing his layer of the Hells. The Black Sovereign believes that his sometimes consort, who has no real love or respect for her father, would be loyal to him rather than Asmodeus in a coup to take the Hells.

7.) Baalzebul (OF)
Baalzebul was cursed with the form of beings lower than beasts on his banishment. He looked to be in contention as one of the longest-reigning devils until the Second Reckoning. Asmodeus did not relinquish Baalzebul's lordship of the Seventh.
Baalzebul and the Black Sovereign do not get along, and the Sovereign tried to establish Samael in place of Baalzebul before he managed to establish him in Avernus.

8.) Mephisopheles (ND)
Of the devils, Mephistopheles is the most inventive, having personally invented both hellfire and bred the hell hounds that guard his realm. Mephistopheles' side projects sometimes distract him from the politics of the Hells, however, as his continued work to perfect hellfire has done. Mephistopheles is second only to Asmodeus in power and rank, and is the next logical successor to Asmodeus should something remove the Lord of Nessus from his throne. Mephistopheles led the second faction in the Second Reckoning, and had hoped that, had he been able to gain the upper hand against Baalzebul, he would have been able to overthrow Amsodeus.
The Black Sovereign holds Mephistopheles in esteem, and keeps a palace in his realm. He is also courting Mephistopheles, trying to urge along the coup that will put an archdevil more friendly to him in Nessus. Mephistopheles owes a great deal of his influence in hell to the fact that it was he who discovered that devils could use mortal souls to fuel their magic.

9.) Asmodeus (RV)
Asmodeus is sometimes wrongly thought to have been the Radiant Vanguard's Prime General's second in command. This, however, is not the case. Asmodeus had been the Vanguard's most respected general. But after the coup against the gods failed, Asmodeus used Geryon's loyalty, as well as support of several other archdevils to maintain his position. In order to avoid the infighting caused by Nine equal gods vying for power, Asmodeus suggested that a strict higherarchy exist in Baator. Ironically, this higherarchy leads to as much, if not more infighting than the Nine usually boast.
Asmodeus maintains a hatred for the Sovereign, partially because he believes the Sovereign is intruding in his hells and plotting against him, because of the Sovereign's apparent proximity to his daughter, and because of the hatred he already had for the Sovereign, being the Vanguard's general. Neither, however, can get rid of the other, since neither can depend on gathering enough allies against the other. The Sovereign keeps a palace in Nessus, partly to keep an eye on Asmodeus, and partly as another means of staying close to Glasya.


The quick and dirty. I'll add more/clarify later.

Major Events in the History of the Nine Hells

The Nine Prime Legions are formed. Baalzebul, who is the Oaken Father's only angel, is given a contingency of angels made up of the cobbled-together forces of other gods.

The War of Heaven is waged. While the Grim Swordsman holds time at a relative (if not perfect) standstill in other parts of the cosmos, the Prime Legions start a civil war, which the gods quickly and decisively quell.

The Exhile. The gods exhile the Nine Prime Legions, who mount a coup against them, believing that the bickering of Nine equals has led to the relative stagnation of the Dawn War.

The First Reckoning of Hell. The seminal event in establishing the identity of the Hells. Also called the Founding. The devils turn on Asmodeus, or in some tellings, his immediate commander. The fallout from that conflict establishes the power structure of the Nine Hells, a rigid hierarchy, a contrast with the bickering of equals the angels had seen in the gods.

The Black Sovereign makes contact. The Sovereign had never intended to break contact with the devils, but because of the differences in the passage of time between the astral plane (the Grim Swordsman was still experimenting with his dominion over time) and the then demi-plane of Baator, he arrived to plot the devil's reentry into the cosmos after the Founding.

The Pact Primeval. A small contingent of gods bring the devils back into the cosmos to end the massive numbers advantage of the Elemental Armies. The devils deal primarily with the Abyss, while the gods take on the primordials. The Pact establishes Baator as a separate astral dominion, but still limits the movements and powers of the devils outside Baator.

Mephistopheles discovers soul-magic. No longer cut off from the rest of the universe, Mephistopheles discovers a way to use the souls of mortals to power infernal magic, rather than drawing power from the gods.

The Second Reckoning of Hell. Also just the Reckoning of Hell. Changes little but the line-up of Archdevils.